Virginia Tech Shooting. 33 Dead.

[Sean]

It doesn't surprise me when I hear someone in the states has taken a gun into a school and randomly shoot someone but this is probably the most extreme case I've ever seen in a school shooting.

BLACKSBURG, Va. — A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The university reported shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

One student was killed in a dorm and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.

After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed and classes canceled through Tuesday.

"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.
CNN

Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the 4th floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said, "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.

The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

I just watched this news on ITV and they had a news feed from a student presiding in the Tech saying that earlier that week there had been several bomb threats and they were quickly discarded. Also he said that when the first shooting took place the campus didn't inform the police, calling it a hoax.

What's everyone's impressions on not just another US school shooting?

[phatmuther]

I cant wait until they start blaming GTA or other games.

[Sean]

Wow. I never thought of that. Maybe the killer is addicted to Doom or something?

[phatmuther]

Yeah and maybe he killed them because he watched too much powerpuff girls.

[Tobes]

If I was there I would do what the guy does in Phats sig and pwndizzle the gunman. No doubt getting shot myself by some confused cop.

[damien©]

I think everyone's attitude to this is quiet disgusting, a Possible 29 People have died (According to ABC News). There does seem to be previous problems at this school prior to this event, at this moment though to say stuff like "just another shooting".

As for the people who instantaneously blame it on are not different to the people who "mention those" straight after the shootings. To be honest I'm surprised that can be your first comment on the killing of so many individuals.

[phatmuther]

What would you want me to say?

[Scotty Boy]

Just noticed this on my homepage and it's sad to say that it doesn't come as much of a shock these days. :(

Surely the fairly relaxed gun laws have a much greater influence over these events than whatever music people listen to or games that they play.

Although saying that, with all the stabbings and shootings going on in the UK in the last couple of months is it a whole lot safer over here?

[phatmuther]

Although saying that, with all the stabbings and shootings going on in the UK in the last couple of months is it a whole lot safer over here?
Now that made me chuckle.

[Sean]

I think everyone's attitude to this is quiet disgusting, a Possible 29 People have died (According to ABC News). There does seem to be previous problems at this school prior to this event, at this moment though to say stuff like "just another shooting".

As for the people who instantaneously blame it on are not different to the people who "mention those" straight after the shootings. To be honest I'm surprised that can be your first comment on the killing of so many individuals.

I've clearly stated I don't think it's just another shooting.

What's everyone's impressions on not just another US school shooting?

[damien©]

The Quote you have just gave makes it sound like you don't give a crap and the phrase "just another" is as if you are casting it off and saying oh well doesn't really matter.

Just for others to realise this isn't just another shooting, this is the worst shooting at a US Education Facility in history.

To be honest, I'm quite shocked at people's reaction so far. These people are all innocent people, and to blame their Gun Laws is stupid, you don't even know anything about the Killer or how he got hold of a Gun or even the Virginia State Gun Laws.
---

I feel sorry to all the Families of people who across the US who will be getting visits from Police, informing that there Children won't be coming home to them ever again.

[Sean]

I don't think anyone was mocking the victims. The killer deserves everything he gets. When I said it's not just another shooting I said it so that people hopefully wouldn't think exactly that.

[phatmuther]

To be honest, I'm quite shocked at people's reaction so far. These people are all innocent people, and to blame their Gun Laws is stupid, you don't even know anything about the Killer or how he got hold of a Gun or even the Virginia State Gun Laws.

Hardly.


-------

[Scotty Boy]

Surely the fairly relaxed gun laws have a much greater influence over these events than whatever music people listen to or games that they play.


to blame their Gun Laws is stupid, you don't even know anything about the Killer or how he got hold of a Gun or even the Virginia State Gun Laws.


I wasn't laying the blame on the gun laws themselves. Just pointing out that surely the more relaxed gun laws (than the UK) have a much larger influence than whatever media people play/watch/listen to.

State Requirements
Rifles and Shotguns
Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.

Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.

Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.

Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns

Permit to purchase handgun? No.

Registration of handguns? No.

Licensing of owners of handguns? No.

Permit to carry handguns? Yes. A permit is required if concealed.

Other Requirements

Is there a State waiting period? No.

Source (http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaw_va.htm)

[Sean]

Just to add to the mix: The Gun laws in Virginia

State Requirements
Rifles and Shotguns

* Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.

* Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.

* Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.

* Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.


Handguns

* Permit to purchase handgun? No.

* Registration of handguns? No.

* Licensing of owners of handguns? No.

* Permit to carry handguns? Yes. A permit is required if concealed.


Other Requirements

* Is there a State waiting period? No.

Source (http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaw_va.htm)

I do agree with Big D though, it's not necessarily the Gun Laws that allowed this to happen.

[damien©]

Hardly.


-------

Ok then explain the me the procedure involved in getting a Gun without resorting to Google.

[Webb]

Well I personally believe it is the lax gun laws that have created this situation, yet again. No other country do you get these tragedies as often. Michael Moore's, Bowling for Columbine was a real eye opener for me.

Such a shame and waste of life :( My heart goes out to the victim's friends and families in this needy time.

[WACCOE]

Ohhh just ---- off moaning Big D, seriously.
No one wants to listen.

[phatmuther]

Ok then explain the me the procedure involved in getting a Gun without resorting to Google.

What the hell are you on about?

How else would I find out such a thing apart from use the internet?

The law is you can trade a baby for a gun.

Now prove that isnt wrong without using your fingers.

Dont post such stupid things. FFS.

[charliebrown]

it didnt take many people long to come out with smartass gta comments did it. lets get back to talking about whether we like pepsi or coke ,our brown or red sauce our some bull---- that is always posted on this site.some of you people really are heartless -----s!

[WACCOE]

it didnt take many people long to come out with smartass gta comments did it. lets get back to talking about whether we like pepsi or coke ,our brown or red sauce our some bull---- that is always posted on this site.some of you people really are heartless -----s!

Pepsi/Red sauce.
For me.
You?

[Joe]

I bet he did it with his Wiimote, ------. ¬_¬

[phatmuther]

it didnt take many people long to come out with smartass gta comments did it. lets get back to talking about whether we like pepsi or coke ,our brown or red sauce our some bull---- that is always posted on this site.some of you people really are heartless -----s!

And thousands and thousands of people die every single die, I dont see you sheding a tear for them?

Yes, its a bad thing. Yes, its sad. And yes, I wish it didnt happen and wouldn't happen again. But its life, live with it. I dont know these people hence I dont care as much as if I would've known them, thats how it is.

And smartass GTA comments? Are you telling me some TV station or newspaper somewhere isnt gonna tell everyone that this kid had a copy of the game and thats what made him do it? Or that he listens to Marilyn Manson so that made him do it? They will, because they're idiots.

[charliebrown]

And thousands and thousands of people die every single die, I dont see you sheding a tear for them?

Yes, its a bad thing. Yes, its sad. And yes, I wish it didnt happen and wouldn't happen again. But its life, live with it. I dont know these people hence I dont care as much as if I would've known them, thats how it is.

And smartass GTA comments? Are you telling me some TV station or newspaper somewhere isnt gonna tell everyone that this kid had a copy of the game and thats what made him do it? Or that he listens to Marilyn Manson so that made him do it? They will, because they're idiots.

yeah i know its gonna happen. yeah the us government will blame video games,jack thompson will be back on his campain to ban every game with a firearm in it. I just thought that there mabye would have been a little more respect paid to the people killed.

[Joe]

Restecpa to the ppl who were killed, now lets play some GTA!

[Sean]

No disresepect has been shown towards the victims. Like Phat said, we're less likely to care because if we cared so much we'd forever be caring.

[damien©]

What the hell are you on about?

My point was that you seemed to thing it was not stupid to blame gun laws, when we (and you) don't know

-Why he Went on the Rampage?
-Whether he got the Gun Legally or not?
-Whether or not he had Medical Issues?
-If he had previous convictions?

You are just jumping to conclusions and then moaning about people doing the exact same thing.

Ohhh just ---- off moaning Big D, seriously.
No one wants to listen.

So you can't handle a different point of view without getting aggressive, I think it might be time for you to ---- off, not me.

I'm posting my views and my comments on other people, they are entitled to their view as much as me. However if they don't want there view to be debated or questioned then don't post it. It's meant to be an open discussion, if you don't like that then leave.

[charliebrown]

My point was that you seemed to thing it was not stupid to blame gun laws, when we (and you) don't know

-Why he Went on the Rampage?
-Whether he got the Gun Legally or not?
-Whether or not he had Medical Issues?
-If he had previous convictions?

You are just jumping to conclusions and then moaning about people doing the exact same thing.



So you can't handle a different point of view without getting aggressive, I think it might be time for you to ---- off, not me.

I'm posting my views and my comments on other people, they are entitled to their view as much as me. However if they don't want there view to be debated or questioned then don't post it. It's meant to be an open discussion, if you don't like that then leave.

clap clap.. awsome moderator skills.

[phatmuther]

My point was that you seemed to thing it was not stupid to blame gun laws, when we (and you) don't know

-Why he Went on the Rampage?
-Whether he got the Gun Legally or not?
-Whether or not he had Medical Issues?
-If he had previous convictions?

You are just jumping to conclusions and then moaning about people doing the exact same thing.

Fair enough, but the fact remains, if he didnt have gun, no-one would've gotten shot, and I dont need google to tell me that thankyou.

I cant wait for Blaze to hop on this and PzzoWn! us all with his POS remarks.

[damien©]

Yea but there's been shootings in this County before, and a few a couple of weeks ago not on this scale but it shows even for a Country that has in comparison strict Gun Laws access still isn't totally removed.

[AK.]

just shows your not safe anywhere these days

[phatmuther]

Yea but there's been shootings in this County before, and a few a couple of weeks ago not on this scale but it shows even for a Country that has in comparison strict Gun Laws access still isn't totally removed.

Im sure if you found a comparrison chart or whatnot of shootings in the UK and the USA they would be EXTREMELY different.

[linkofhyrule]

Jesus. This is about an hour from where I live..

[damien©]

Im sure if you found a comparrison chart or whatnot of shootings in the UK and the USA they would be EXTREMELY different.

Not the point I'm making, I just saying even with Strict Gun Laws in the UK, Shootings aren't totally removed. But yea we would come down fairly low on the List.

[phatmuther]

Dont worry, I know shootings arnt totally removed from UK life, someone was shot outside my uni a couple of years ago. And not 100 yards from where I sit now someone was stabbed in the head just under a year ago. I just choose to live with it, not get upset everytime it happens.

[Tobes]

I love Phat
Breaking: IDIOT Thompson Blames Va Shooting on Games (http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/breaking-idiot-thompson-blames-va-shooting-on-games-252702.php)

[Outlaw]

I think the whole thing is truly awefull and a huge shame, but ----, i'm agreeing with Phat on this one.
If things like this affected me constantly, life would be ----.
I'm not saying this hasn't affected me at all, rather I choose not too let it affect me too much

[damien©]

I love Phat
Breaking: IDIOT Thompson Blames Va Shooting on Games (http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/breaking-idiot-thompson-blames-va-shooting-on-games-252702.php)

Yea that's just pathetic, even a Anti-Gun Campaigner in Virginia itself when interviewed by the BBC said it's better to wait until the Facts are known before commenting on ways to reduce these attacks.

[phatmuther]

Yea that's just pathetic, even a Anti-Gun Campaigner in Virginia itself when interviewed by the BBC said it's better to wait until the Facts are known before commenting on ways to reduce these attacks.

We know its pathetic, its all just bull----. BUT I knew this would happen.

(Kiss Kiss Tob3z)

[phatmuther]

I cant wait until they start blaming GTA or other games.

Oh, by the way it took 3 hours and 43 minutes.

[Killer 57]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

32 Killed and 29 wounded. Which makes it the deadliest mass shooting in U.S history.

This is awful, and my heart goes out to the victims families.

[Swifty]

a real shame, what could drive someone to such madness

I hope he gets his just rewards and I have to agree with Big D a few comments on this thread are disheartening to say the least :brow:

[Stunt]

Yeah. I heard about this on the news after school today.

It is really a shame. What would make a person do such a thing?
May the 21 who died rest in peace.

[linkofhyrule]

Yeah. I heard about this on the news after school today.

It is really a shame. What would make a person do such a thing?
May the 21 who died rest in peace.
The death toll's now at 32.. It looks like it'll probably stay that way now, everyone looks to be going towards recovery in the ERs.

Suppose a mod should edit the number in the title?

[Truplaya83]

It is a shame, and i feel for the families of the victims but you really have to think "why does this happen every few months?"

I dont know, but if it wasnt so easy to get a gun in the states, maybe this wouldnt happen so much. Just a thought

[Swifty]

I got 33 as the total dead now :(

such a waste of human life

http://news.uk.msn.com/virginia_shootings.aspx

[phatmuther]

The rampage took place in two separate areas, first at a dormitory as students had begun criss-crossing the sprawling campus for morning classes, and then about two hours later at an engineering and science hall a half-mile (0.8 km) away. The attacks sparked panic and chaos.
2 hours later!? C'mon! Useless.

[TBS Trojan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

this says it was an oriental guy who i guess was mad that his girlfriend or ex was going out with someone else. just awful.

[Swifty]

Gunner Is Named

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42812000/jpg/_42812241_cho203i.jpg

Police have named a student who shot dead at least 30 people at a US university as Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old from South Korea.

[Sean]

Any news on motives? I doubt the jealously over a cheating girlfriend is exactly correct.

[owoke]

Although saying that, with all the stabbings and shootings going on in the UK in the last couple of months is it a whole lot safer over here?

I guess so, a knife can only be used from close up unless they can throw it like Rambo

But I do feel sorry for all the familys who had someone killed

[Sean]

This was just released on the news.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Eh06rabuI

[Joe]

he talks like a retard, can't understand him.

[JoshD182]

http://news.aol.co.uk/massacre-gunmans-chilling-video-tirade/article/20070419041109990002

there is also this.

[Truplaya83]

it seems america hasnt leant from columbine how ever many years ago it was. This will happen again if nothing is done and keep happening.
Dunno if i would want my kids to grow up there, bit worrying

[Swifty]

it seems america hasnt leant from columbine how ever many years ago it was. This will happen again if nothing is done and keep happening.
Dunno if i would want my kids to grow up there, bit worrying

Im sorry but if someone wants a gun bad enough theres hundreds of ways to get their hands on them

a school can 'prepare' all it wants to but if someone wants to take out some guns and go shooting people then the school has little or no chance of stopping them unless they have guards on every corridor which is implausible!

and c'mon, your saying its a bit worrying over there. I would be just as worried here with all the stabbings as I would be their. Its not like these shootings happen every day, even every year.

[Daniel 89]

Killed 33 people? what a mental case. (N)

[Killer 57]

----en news media, they're one of the biggest reasons ---- like this happens.

[Raisedbyflames]

seems like a nice guy on his videos all fluffy bunnies and rainbows

[Killer 57]

Today's newspaper front page is almost completely dedicated to this incident, but there is one tiny little headline on the bottom right hand corner:

" 168 killed in Baghdad"

Kinda funny in a sad way.

[damien©]

Unfortunately it appears as if some members can't comment or even debate a subject without referring to insults, racist comments or general unacceptable behaviour.

If this continues I will have no choice but to hand out Infractions and Bans, the Mods have been trying to use deletions and slight warnings to point out what is acceptable and what isn't. However that method can't continue, if members are constantly ignoring this.

[Tomshi]

What a ---- taking innocents.. I would love to curb stomp that -----

Accoring To Jack Thompson (Claps Hands *Sarcasim*) He Planed his assault on Counterstike But everyone knows Jack Thompson Is Just A Whopper

[Raisedbyflames]

you know what ----ing pisses me off more than anything theirs was a load of suicide bombings in iraq that killed loads more than 30 people and everyones ignoring it as if its not importand or iraqi lives dont count as much as everyone elses soo you should be talking about this attack but their was a more tragic one thgat happened on the other side of the world that no ones intrested about.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6567329.stm

[Tomshi]

There U go ----ing exactly. America...Why does every other country have there head up america's Arse it does annoy me?!?!

[Sean]

I don't believe people have their heads up Americas arse. Like you Raised I heard about the suicide bombings in Iraq and feel deeply saddened by what this world is turning into. I was debating on creating a thread on that as well but with the outcome of this thread (racist slurs etc) I decided not too.

Also if we did that for every tragic event we'd be calling this place TragicNewsMonster. :)

[Raisedbyflames]

why dont we have a holocaust thread a happy discussion for everyone

[WACCOE]

There was a reason, though.
Me, Padds and BIG D were talking about it on Vegas last night.
If you've watched the video, you can tell he's wound up about something, and pissed off with someone.
Maybe he got bullied, and this was some form of revenge?

[Joe]

Wasn't it something to do with him hating rich people? :s

[WACCOE]

Maybe they were his bullies?
They maybe thought they were better than him, as he obviously wasn't aswell off...so thought he was an easy target to take the piss out of.

[Raisedbyflames]

he was korean thiers a big diffrence

[Tomshi]

That Murderer doesnt deserve respect hope he enjoys hell!

[Sean]

So much for your last post in here Joe :)

Seriously though, a good man died saving his Students. Let's get away from the racism and concentrate on the good people.

[owoke]

Plus, dont forget he had mental disposition (severe autism), so if the special needs care over in the states was better, he wouldnt have been at such a big collage.

Im not saying its a reason for him to do what he did, just saying their was failings elsewhere that made it possible.

[AfroJoe]

Yeah, it should never have been allowed to happen. The authorities had known the guy was a nutcase for a couple of years, yet from what has been said, they didn't exactly do a lot to help him.

[owoke]

Its not just the cops tho, how many autistic childern go to collages or schools people here go?

[WACCOE]

I still don't get how one guy over-powered so many students.
Gun or no gun.
If they'd of had some balls they'd of tried to stop him, whilst they were lined up. :/

[Sean]

Very good point Waccoe. So far it sounds like only the professor tried to stop him. By the sounds of it, he did a better job than the police and preventing loss of life.

[owoke]

Its not really a good point tho, you wont know what you will do until some-one points a gun in your face

[Swifty]

in one of the rooms the students barricaded the door, he shot two rounds into it but left the room alone...

so they all survived due to a select few holding heung behind the door!

Also the only brit who was part of the shooting got shot 3 times but survived due to every bullet missing an vital organs

I mean wow!

[Sean]

There was a lot of bravery. As for your point Owoke, your correct but I know I wouldn't run away from such a place. You may not believe me when I say this but, I would try and help anyone that was with me and try to protect them as much as I would protect myself.

[WACCOE]

Its not really a good point tho, you wont know what you will do until some-one points a gun in your face

Stand there knowing you're going to die, as 5 people next to you have just been pipped in the head?
Or try and make a move, and possibly save some other lifes?
If just a few would have gone upto him they would've got him.
:/

[owoke]

I wasnt questioning the size of your balls mate, just saying.

[Dcontrol]

Right I've read through this thread deleted posts included, anymore of the immature/insulting posts will be dealt with by me and my iron fist :o. Either people buck up theirs ideas or they will have to face up to the consequences of either having the thread closed/people being infracted/banned. So enough of the nonsense please guys, this is the one and only warning I am giving, and I'm no slouch when it comes to giving out warnings!

Now back on topic, this is an event which has shocked many countries across the World. Its tragic that this incident couldn't have been avoided (how do you stop a lunatic?) and my condolences go out to all involved. It seems obvious that this was a disturbed individual and he obviously needed some sort of help.

[Sean]

(Thanks for that D. Where was you 30 minutes ago :p I hate doing your job!)

If a few did go up to him then like you said, they surely would have prevented a few more killings.

[WACCOE]

(Thanks for that D. Where was you 30 minutes ago :p I hate doing your job!)

If a few did go up to him then like you said, they surely would have prevented a few more killings.
No doubt.
http://www.campyonly.com/images/shorts/2005/soma_bottle.jpg

[Sean]

Did I miss something? What's this?

[JoshD182]

I said 32 INNOCENT people, read Joe!

33 died but thats including the killer!

Just a note:

I read in the Metro paper today that two of the 32 'innocent' people weren't actually as innocent as is made to believe, as they were two of the kids that used to pick on the guy and push him over at high school, not that that makes any of this right or they diserved to die or owt, but people shoudlnt bully other people. end of.

also, to blame this inceident on the film 'Oldboy' is a load of bull----, i wish these ----s would stop looking for someone else to blame and face up to their responsibilities.

[Sean]

The people that play the blame game are usually the people that are to blame themselves.

The world is an evil place.

[WACCOE]

Just a note:

I read in the Metro paper today that two of the 32 'innocent' people weren't actually as innocent as is made to believe, as they were two of the kids that used to pick on the guy and push him over at high school, not that that makes any of this right or they diserved to die or owt, but people shoudlnt bully other people. end of.

also, to blame this inceident on the film 'Oldboy' is a load of bull----, i wish these ----s would stop looking for someone else to blame and face up to their responsibilities.

Yeah...as I said up top, a few of us were talking about it last night and we all agreed, judging by what he had said in the video, that he was clearly seeking some sort of revenge. Trying to get someone back, for something they'd done to him.
Still a lot of unanswered questions, though.

[Sean]

I'm sure this will be in the news for another week or two. Even when they have more developments in the future it'll make headline news.

[owoke]

Couldve been if the system in place was better, and he wasnt able to go/continue at that school a year after the complaints against him

[JoshD182]

its a sad fact of life that people would rather have all these deaths than just give up their guns.

[damien©]

its a sad fact of life that people would rather have all these deaths than just give up their guns.

Yea because the Guns told him to Kill all the People didn't they. Just like other 200 Million Guns in Circulation in the US tell everyone to kill 32 Innocent People.

My Maths isn't the best but 200 Million x 32 = Bigger than the US Population? Them ----ers are still around so it sounds as if your theory has gone astray somewhere.

Yea no need for my immense sarcasm but the Guns never killed the Individuals it was the Man holding the Trigger. A Man who was referred to a Mental Institute that later described him a Threat to both himself and others.

If the Police, School and Mental Authorities had taken the concerns of both Staff and Students then this could of been avoided.

[AfroJoe]

Right, I've deleted about 50 posts from this thread. Pretty much everything that spawned as a result of Joe's "chink" comment.

Shocking that some people can't not act like --------s even on an occasion like this.

No more. Stay on topic.

[JoshD182]

Yea because the Guns told him to Kill all the People didn't they. Just like other 200 Million Guns in Circulation in the US tell everyone to kill 32 Innocent People.

My Maths isn't the best but 200 Million x 32 = Bigger than the US Population? Them ----ers are still around so it sounds as if your theory has gone astray somewhere.

Yea no need for my immense sarcasm but the Guns never killed the Individuals it was the Man holding the Trigger. A Man who was referred to a Mental Institute that later described him a Threat to both himself and others.

If the Police, School and Mental Authorities had taken the concerns of both Staff and Students then this could of been avoided.


sorry, let me explain myself a bit batter. what i meant was that if there were no guns available AT ALL, then there wouldnt have been any of these deaths, would there? well maybe if he had gone about it with a hammer and a knife, but not 32 anyway. what i was saying is that in america (many other countries before any of you get on my back about that aswell), people think guns are 'cool', when theyre not, they are for hurting/killing people, nothing else. they would rather have them to show off than give them all up and help prevent tragic shootings like this. it would have been a lot harder for him to build a bomb or stab 32 people than it has been for him to run round pulling a trigger.

[damien©]

Yea but Guns do have there uses and have been enshrined in US Law since the very beginning that's not something that's easy to shake off.

The incident could of been easily avoided by actually taking the concerns and diagnostic of the Tutors, Students and the Mental Health Profession.

The fact remains that although these Guns are easily accessed this kind of incident happens once in a Blue Moon and if you compare it with Columbine they both have the same warning signs and that's Mental Health problems.

[JoshD182]

i agree, but its easier to for people to just ignore the warnings and minimise paperwork and let things like this happen.

as for the once in a blue moon thing:

http://news.aol.co.uk/us-gunman-kills-hostage-and-himself/article/20070421015509990007?CLI=16009117

three or four days apart???

[damien©]

You can't compare these two incidents, one was intended to kill as many people as possible while the other seems to be killing one person and himself possibly as a result of some inter-work problems.

I'm not saying that Guns are a Good thing, I'm just pointing out that to say that this type of thing wouldn't of happened just because he didn't have a Gun. I think is fair fetched, it wasn't the Gun that told him to Kill everyone.

As for that incident, he could easily killed both the Victim and himself in numerous different ways. Hell, he could of brought a replica and ran at the police...Suicide by Cop!

[JoshD182]

yes i can compare them, theyre are shootings in america, without guns the people killed couldnt have been shot could they???

[phatmuther]

I think is fair fetched, it wasn't the Gun that told him to Kill everyone.


No, but it was the gun that killed everyone.

[damien©]

Yea but the Crime isn't Shooting it's Murder!
And without Guns they still could of been Murdered.
----

You are making it sound as if Mass Murder can't take place unless you have a Gun, anyone remember the Oklahoma Bombings?

Claimed 168 Lives, that was done by two people!

[phatmuther]

And without Guns they still could of been Murdered.

Yes that is true, but not to this extent.

[damien©]

I refer you to what I said above!

[phatmuther]

I see Mr Edit it in ;)

Yeah, and the same could be said if he went round with a knife, he certainly wouldn't have killed 33 would he? No.

And if he went round with no weapon? Yeah, exactly.

Im not saying that the fact he had a gun made him kill, Im just saying that the gun helped him kill a hell of a lot of people, and if he didnt have it, he might not of.

[Killer 57]

If you want to look at it that way, the hell if it wasn't for that fact that VT is a no-gun zone, and the teachers were allowed to carry concealed weapons, then they would have blown him away before he could kill all those students.

[damien©]

Im not saying that the fact he had a gun made him kill, Im just saying that the gun helped him kill a hell of a lot of people, and if he didnt have it, he might not of.

You are right, the Gun helped him kill alot of people and if he didn't he probably wouldn't have killed so many.

However if he had got the Help he needed and the Police and the Mental Health Authorities took the concerns seriously that he was both a threat to himself and others then this whole even could of been avoided.

Ban Guns = Possibility of 3-4 Attacks without being "brought down"
Medical Health Attention = 0 Killings!

That's my view anyway!

[JoshD182]

im not blaming the gun big D, im blaming all of the people that ignore the things that shouldnt be ignored, due to the amount of work they would have to do to sort it out properly, another thing i greatly disagree with is the fact that people are trying to blame the gun shop owner that sold him the gun, even when he had ALL the required paperwork to purchase/own one under the gun laws of that area!!!!so surely the law woulb be partly to blame for that one eh?

[linkofhyrule]

Well, the gun shop owner should've had access to the information that said that Cho had been in a mental hospital for two days. I don't think he would've been allowed to buy a gun if that was in his record. Not the gun shop owner's fault. Probably the police's fault.

[Blaze Lord]

Well I personally believe it is the lax gun laws that have created this situation, yet again. No other country do you get these tragedies as often. Michael Moore's, Bowling for Columbine was a real eye opener for me.
Don't you remember the comparison to Canada part in Bowling? Canada's gun laws aren't much stricter, and their murder/shooting rate is wayyyyyyy below the US'. It isn't about gun-laws or gun-loving or whatnot. It's about being a more fear-driven, irrational country, an issue that's mostly separate from gun laws. Or at least, it's the former that drives the latter, not the other way around.


(Haven't read the whole thread, apologies if this has been mentioned before.)

[WACCOE]

What is your take on the gun-laws in your country, Blaze?
Just be interesting to hear from a seemingly down-to-earth American.
And, do you personally own a gun?
Brap brap etc

[Blaze Lord]

I'm not against tougher gun control at all. Case in point, the fact that weapons have to be banned piece-meal is ridiculous.

[Killer 57]

What is your take on the gun-laws in your country, Blaze?
Just be interesting to hear from a seemingly down-to-earth American.
And, do you personally own a gun?
Brap brap etc

I know that's a typo and you actually meant to say Killer, so I'll respond:

we should have guns its our right as americans to have guns, how are we supposed to fight terrorist who try to kill us if we dont have guns? its our right to bear arms it says it in the constiutions so ---- whoever says we should put down our guns ppl will think im not a man if i dont have gun everyone knows the bigger the gun the bigger your -----! also we need to able to overthrow the government if need be. i do own two shotguns that i have on my ford truck and its not for killen its for huntin but it can also hunt humans if some ------ gets on me lawn.

So yeah.

[WACCOE]

@BLAZE - Why's it ridiculous?

[Killer 57]

Have any of you seen that Simpsons episode where everyone burns their guns and weapons for world piece, then one person decides to go bat ---- crazy with a piece of wood with a nail on it and starts to kill everyone? That's the way I look at gun laws.

[Blaze Lord]

'Cause when Congress bans an assault rifle, the manufacturer can lengthen or shorten the grip, call it a new gun, and then Congress has to go through a whole new legislative process to re-ban the gun. Then the same thing can happen all over again with a longer/shorter barrel, et cetera, et cetera.

[WACCOE]

What if they just decided, '---- it, lets just ban all firearms'?

[Blaze Lord]

Simply couldn't happen. For a lot of reasons. But there's a decent 'can't put the toothpaste back in the tube' argument against that.

Still, they could ban all automatic weapons and all semi-automatic rifles. I've never really understood why you need semi-automatic to hunt, and you certainly don't need more than a semi-automatic pistol for self-defense.

[JoshD182]

like i said before its becuase they think theyre cool, guns are just another accessory for people to own. a car, a phone, a house, a gun, just something else to show off with.