The Italian scandal outcome is announced here!!!

[backin-strachan]

Italian trio relegated to Serie B

AC Milan, Fiorentina, Juventus and Lazio were implicated
Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.
AC Milan will stay in Serie A but will lose 15 points and will be kicked out of the Champions League.

Juventus were also stripped of their last two titles and had 30 points deducted meaning that they are almost certain to stay down for two seasons.

Lazio were penalised seven points while Fiorentina suffered a 12 point penalty.

The clubs will have three days to appeal to the Federal Court.

The FIGC (Italian football's governing body) must hand Uefa the lists of teams that will be involved in European competitions by 25 July, with Juventus, AC Milan and and Fiorentina out of the Champions League and Lazio thrown out of the Uefa Cup.


Inter, Roma, Chievo and Palermo, who finished third, fifth and seventh and eighth are all expected to be the teams taking part in next season's Champions League.

Those directly involved with the scandal were also penalised, with former Juventus general manager Luciano Moggi suspended from all football for five years and Adriano Galliani, who was AC Milan vice-president, suspended for one year.

The tribunal in Rome investigated charges that the clubs, their management, football officials and referees tried to influence the outcome of matches by interfering with the appointment of officials.

In May, transcripts were published of telephone conversations between Moggi and Italian Football Association officials, discussing refereeing appointments in the 2004-05 season.

FIGC prosecutor Stefano Palazzi also charged 26 individuals for sporting fraud and violating fairness and probity.

All four clubs implicated denied the accusations.

Thirteen of Italy's World Cup-winning squad play for the clubs involved, with five at Juventus, who also number Patrick Vieira, Lilian Thuram, David Trezeguet, Pavel Nedved and Zlatan Ibrahimovic in their ranks.

[Killer 57]

Sad day in the sport of football. Just the thought, if some have been caught, who knows how many got away with it.

[AfroJoe]

I can't believe scummy Milan got away with it. Berlusconi clearly has something to do with that. :@

Juve could keep their current squad and struggle to get promoted to Serie A this season. They've got no chance. :(

[backin-strachan]

They wont be able to afford the wages, it will be the young ones coming through.

Roma and Inter will be happy:p

[AfroJoe]

Nono, I was saying it theoritcally. Even if they kept their full squad there are no guarentees on being promoted again. 30 points is a massive gap to overcome.

They should have a fairly good squad for next year, but I don't think they'll finish anywhere above somewhere like 9th or 10th.

This could kill Lazio off permanently, which would be awful. :(

[backin-strachan]

Yeah and Di Canio and a few other of their players left.


P.S Di Canio left for a 4th tier club i.e Seria D so must be pretty bad.

But the whole Juve board resigned and some have disappeared completely. One even tried to kill himself:( but nothing has happened to them:s

[AfroJoe]

Pessotto wasn't on the board - his suicide attempt was completely unrelated. He was playing for Juve up until midway through this season, and so couldn't have been involved. :)

Di Canio has gone to a Serie C2 club (not Serie D ;))? That surprises me. I thought he would have hung up his boots now, or maybe given Serie B one shot with Lazio. I don't think they'll come back, though. Financially, they're already screwed - getting relegated will just finish them. :(

[Killer 57]

So in finished meaning they are done as a world class club?

[phatmuther]

good ridence to them, they shouldnt cheat

[AfroJoe]

So in finished meaning they are done as a world class club?

Lazio - yeah, I'd pretty much say so.

Juve will be back.

Fiorentina will be back within a season, and Juve probably in 3 or 4.

But Lazio, I just can't see it. They're too financially-crippled already.

[Killer 57]

That's Harsh, So from my understanding they fixed games?

[russellclow]

good ridence to them, they shouldnt cheat

I have to agree - if they cheat, they get punished. Good on the Italian FA to dish out a punishment that (maybe) some countries FA's would be too scared to do - It's like relegating Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea to The Championship, very big step, takes alot of balls.

[Killer 57]

Indeed Russ, it takes a lot of balls, just look the MLB and their Steroid problem, they're scared of the cheaters, since the guys hitting the massive HomerRuns are the guys bringing in the cash, its getting ugly, its sad to see a Sport that was once referred as " Americas pastime" So tainted.

[AfroJoe]

That's Harsh, So from my understanding they fixed games?

Well, sort of.

Apparently they arranged for specific officials to referee their matches. They didn't pay the referees to fix matches, but they paid the officials to pick referees that they believed would suit them.

The reason Juve are being hit so hard by the whole thing is because their Sporting Director, Luciano Moggi, was behind the whole process.

[Killer 57]

Yeah thats bad, considering Refs have the power to determine the outcome of a game.

[-Deki-]

Lazio - yeah, I'd pretty much say so.

Juve will be back.

Fiorentina will be back within a season, and Juve probably in 3 or 4.

But Lazio, I just can't see it. They're too financially-crippled already.
Lazio still have good players, Oddo, Pandev, Peruzzi and S. Inzaghi so if they hold onto them they should have a decent side. Add to that the fact they have just signed Ledesma, a great player, alot of top sides wanted, they should be fine if they hold on to the majority of their best players.

Add to that their huge fan base and the fact that they have more chance than any of the other Serie B clubs of attracting the best players at that level to them, for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't rule Lazio's return out just yet.

Not to mention the fact the clubs are yet to appeal.

[AfroJoe]

Their financial situation is horrible, though. They have debts of about £200m, and this is going to drop further due to loss of revenue from playing in Serie B. The UEFA Cup last season saved them from bankruptcy, and they were due to make more money back playing in it again this season.

It's not about whether they can escape Serie B and climb back out again. They're not financially secure like Juventus and Fiorentina. They could walk Serie B and still die as a club at the end of the season.

[JJBDude]

Oh dear poor Italian football. I laugh at you. :)

[AfroJoe]

Why do you laugh at it?

I'd be so gutted if I was a fan or player of one of the clubs involved. Screwed over by the men in suits. Rubbish.

[WACCOE]

Ha! What a joke. Serves them right, idiots.


Let's say goodbye to Juve, they will never be what they was, they will lose all there players and go down again next season. Chievo and Palermo in Champs League though :| ha!

Pro Evo 6 will be a joke w/out Juve. :(

[JJBDude]

Why do you laugh at it?

I'd be so gutted if I was a fan or player of one of the clubs involved. Screwed over by the men in suits. Rubbish.

I laugh at them as Italian minded football (defend defende defend) sucks, and now with the likes of Trezueguet and Ibrahimovic in a situation which will almost definitely lead to leaving their club, the Premiership will get ever better as some of our teams will buy the players. :D

And I don't watch Serie A, so it's better for me to see the great players from Italy play in England. :)

[AfroJoe]

And I don't watch Serie A

...is the comment that explains why...

I laugh at them as Italian minded football (defend defende defend) sucks

...is a load of guff. :)

It wasn't defensive football that won Italy the World Cup, and you know that.


Also, Thornbag, Juve will be back, you can count on it. They're keeping all their young players, as well as Del Piero, C. Zanetti, Bojinov, and possibly even Thuram and Nedved. They'll finish mid-table in Serie B this season, and then will get promoted next season.

As well as this, the General Manager says they're only going to sell off the really valuable assets, which means players like Trezeguet, Camoranesi, Vieira and stuff might just be loaned out until Juve get back into Serie A. :)

Nike are still manufacturing their kits, and Tamoil are continuing to sponsor them with the biggest deal in Italian football.

Mark my words, Juve will be playing CL football in 3 or 4 years again.

[JJBDude]

Sorry but I'm too lazy to read all of that.

Doesn't bother me much, I just wanna see entertaining football, and I do by watching my weekly Match of the Day.

I've seen Serie A matches before, and they are so boring.

[AfroJoe]

Don't worry, hardly any of it concerns you.

From "Also, Thornbag" down, I'm speaking to him. :)

[WACCOE]

Meh, we'll see. :D


If Fio'tina can hold onto Toni I reckon they come bounce back really qucikly (same with Lazio), as not all of there team are exactly targets for big teams...as, well, they aren't really the BEST out there, :D.

30 points is hard thing to come back from for any team though. :|

[AfroJoe]

Well, if they play like a team who would get promotion under normal circumstances, they should get about 80 points, and if you subtract 30 from that, then you got 50, which is a mid-table tally. :)

Fiorentina I agree with you about, but not Lazio. Relegation and no European football for a club that's £200m in debt isn't a good situation to be in. They could go out of business. :(

[JJBDude]

Don't worry, hardly any of it concerns you.

From "Also, Thornbag" down, I'm speaking to him. :)

Good good. :$

And it sure is going to be a mission for Juventus, when they are going to lose around a third of the amount of points they would be expected to gain in the season.

[mjmaskrey]

I can't believe scummy Milan got away with it. Berlusconi clearly has something to do with that. :@


You can bet your life on that...AFAIK he owns the TV company that broadcasts Italian Football and was threatening not to renew the rights...which scared some very important people.

Corruption, blackmail....got to love the Italians!!

:)

[Uriel Septim]

all i can say deserves them right match fixing just stupid, i just hope gianluigi buffon comes to arsenal quality goalkeeper

[AfroJoe]

You can bet your life on that...AFAIK he owns the TV company that broadcasts Italian Football and was threatening not to renew the rights...which scared some very important people.

Corruption, blackmail....got to love the Italians!!

:)

Only in Italy would they allow a court case dealing with corruption become corrupt. :(

[backin-strachan]

Was told by a mate that this isnt the Be All And End All for AC MILAN???

[AfroJoe]

What do you mean by that?

[backin-strachan]

Well I think he was saying that Milans punishment might not just be -15 points and European expulsion.

[AfroJoe]

Well, I've not heard anything about that, but I'm certainly hoping he's right.

Milan haven't been expelled from European competition, by the way. They were deducted 44 points from last season's tally, and this dropped them to 11th place, which is where the "explusion" theory came from. They have not, however, been expelled. Just dropped out of the positions from which a European place had been gained.

And now Empoli have pulled out of the UEFA Cup for this season, which apparently paves the way for Milan to enter, as Milan would theoretically move up to 7th place with Empoli's pulling out of the UEFA Cup and the other 3 teams being relegated from above them.

[tidus04]

Ac Milan should be in the Euro because Empoli do not have a European Licence, that would be the reasoning behind that..

[backin-strachan]

Yeah I heard something about that and AC said well we have to play then but Uefa said we will just have 1 less Italian team in then.

But I found it here the teams playing are (most likely :p)

The Italian FA is expected to announce on 25 July that Roma, Chievo and Palermo will join Inter Milan in the Champions League.

[tidus04]

I dont know if you are comparing that to AC Milan making it into Europe as they will be in the Euro Cup not the Champions League.. But anyways you are probably not..

I am not shocked in seeing they are the teams being entered for it. Nice to see a lower range of players will get to play in the Champions League and all :D

[backin-strachan]

I dunno what I heard but it must be the UEFA CUP:s


A lot a lot of good teams in there this year.

[tidus04]

There are a good few of them in it..

[WACCOE]

Chievo and Palermo in the champs league will be, hmmmm, funny. :D

[tidus04]

Well it wont be funny, I would find it more on the side harder to judge how they will be. As you know there was cheating the last couple season so they have not been getting the full potential like the top teams have so it is rather a little hard to judge how good they really are. I dont know what they were like in previous european games if they were in them so I could not say on that.

[backin-strachan]

And Hearts as well :D That'll be a laugh:D

:p

[tidus04]

It wont be a laugh, you may see it as a laugh but in my view I dont see it like that. It will be interesting, not a laugh. Just look at West Ham and Wigan.. That you may have sore as funny but look what come of it. And also Fc Porto..

[AfroJoe]

Chievo and Palermo in the champs league will be, hmmmm, funny. :D

No, what will be funny is when they give some big team a real scare for underestimating them. :D

[tidus04]

Thats why I havent just so if they do I can say I told you so :P

[AK.]

they shouldve relegated AC as well, they dont deserve to be their, but i am suprised that Inter were not involved with them being a big italian side, but i ahve no sympathy at all for them cheats the lot of em, if you have to cheat at football its time to pack in

[WACCOE]

No chance will them 2 give a big team a scare.

Maybe im not been as sceptical as I should, but I cannot see them doing well, at all, in the Champs League.



Oh, and I never actually gave my views on the whole scandal thing; this is what Football is turning into, very soon it wil be like this alot, it is getting too far, it is pathetic, and frankly im starting to have enough with the sport altogether, especailly with the World Cup been as crap as it was.

Watching a whole football match for me 5 years ago used to be enjoyable, I used to actually ENJOY it, now I see it as more of a chore and a task to sit there and watch 90+ minutes of "football". All the diving and cheating, whistle-happy ref's, it's getting too much.

(:/)

[Kalou]

Thornbag I agree, I used to love watching football and I watched anyone in any league, even Scotland!!

Now I can't even focus entirely on a game instead I ditter about because 80% of the game is boring because of the poor refs and the constant cheating that goes on, I don't mind a bit of deceiving every 15 minutes but not every 15 seconds.

Still I think Buffon should join Man UTD because that would be superb, for any team really but especially them, Cannavaro will either join Chelsea or Madrid, although he would be good at Barcelona too.

Zambrotta should join Barcelona because they don't really have a fantastic RB and for me he is as good as they get.

I hope all the big names leave Juventus as it will make football exciting for a short period, something that doesn't happen too often except when the transfer window opens.

But at the end of the day if you're going to relegate 3 teams out of 4 something is seriously going on here, so to "fix" the corruption they make more, nice.

[AfroJoe]

No chance will them 2 give a big team a scare.

Maybe im not been as sceptical as I should, but I cannot see them doing well, at all, in the Champs League.

Why not, though?

They've proven on numerous occasions that they can compete with Juventus, Milan, Inter, etc, so why not teams of a similar level on a European scale?

[RiLu@]

i think the teams that were involved should be send to the serie B and stay there for 2 or 3 years.

[tidus04]

The world cup for me was nothing major, I cheered for Japan and only Japan, not England.. I lost my patriotism but who cares.. not me.. I did not as much enjoying watching Chelsea back in the day as I never knew a major ammount of Football even though everything revolved around it in my life... I never hardly got to see the games so for me when Chelsea are on I get the buzz and I dont find it as boring. There are just mnew asopects of the game that ruin it and should be cut but then Diving has been going on for ages, look at Liniker V Cameroon, was that 2 dives he done there.. It is just getting more frequent. Which in the end will go. I do not think there will be anymore cheating as it match fixing as they have made a good example of Juventus and oter teams will learn from that.

[WACCOE]

Let's be honest - atm the Sport is not looking very good.

A poor World Cup, diving left right and centre, poor officials, match-fixing in Italy. It just doesn't advertise the Sport very well at all.

Infact, it makes it look like a joke.



Rugby League 4tw!

(:/)


Oh, and AJ - we'll see. ;)

[backin-strachan]

Yeah Im one myself to keep saying to cut out diving but what can you actually do. You would have to pick out every single incident and punish each player.

In Scotland it is not tolerated (well obvious diving) as it is seen with a straight red. And I cannot imagine any cheating scandals up here. The league is very even and most teams could be anywhere between 12th and 3rd.

[AfroJoe]

In Scotland it is not tolerated (well obvious diving) as it is seen with a straight red.

Y'what?

Players dive regularly up here, and rarely see even a booking.

[backin-strachan]

Can you support that comment with any evidence. I did say rarely. And eh Roman Bednar was given a STRAIGHT red for diving if I can remember right. In fact whether Im watching the game on TV or at a game I cant actually remember saying he dived

:brow:

[AfroJoe]

Bednar had already been booked beforehand. How do I know? Because I was there.

I've never seen a player given a straight red for diving in Scottish football. How can I transform that statement into evidence? It kind of speaks for itself when neither of us have ever seen a player given a straight red for diving. You thought Bednar did, but he didn't.

[backin-strachan]

Yeah well you cant back up your own statement yourself as by saying players dive up here regularly.

Regulalry, I think its the opposite:|

[AfroJoe]

Yeah, but you're a Celtic fan, so that comment is only natural. See what you want to see and all that. ;)

[backin-strachan]

What am I doing arguing with a Partick Thistle fan. Ugh I feel so dirty.

But please, tell me the long list of players that have dived "regularly" in the SPL, and tell me if they were punished???

;)

[AfroJoe]

Well, obviously I can't remember the majority of them, but when you watch Scotsport SPL every week throughout the season, you notice these things.

Offenders YOU might recognise are Petrov, Nakamura, Maloney and McGeady, though. :)

[backin-strachan]

You watch the Scotsport SPL hhighlights???...:D Point and...

Hmmm

Petrov - Suspect but he rarely gets the ball. Hes been a passenger. Nakamura perhaps but I think you'll find...yes he does go down but theres ALWAYS contact.
Maloney...no all he does is run. He will skin one then skin another player then try and have a dig.
McGeady...haha cant believe you even say that as he doesnt even play:brow: and when he does he doesnt even go down as he (like Maloney) runs but you always remeber his end product. AWAY OVER THE BAR.

How do I know? Because I was there.

But you cant even remember an incident yet you can remeber there is dives...Im confused:s

[AfroJoe]

How am I meant to watch Scottish football highlights otherwise? Are you saying that you DON'T watch Scotsport SPL? If you are saying that, well done on completely nullifying any future argument you plan to use with regards to the Scottish game. :)

And anyway, I was just giving you high profile examples. I go to Thistle games every week, and if there's dives in a Thistle-Stirling Albion games, that doesn't exactly speak volumes about the rest of the Scottish game.

[AK.]

No chance will them 2 give a big team a scare.

Maybe im not been as sceptical as I should, but I cannot see them doing well, at all, in the Champs League.



Oh, and I never actually gave my views on the whole scandal thing; this is what Football is turning into, very soon it wil be like this alot, it is getting too far, it is pathetic, and frankly im starting to have enough with the sport altogether, especailly with the World Cup been as crap as it was.

Watching a whole football match for me 5 years ago used to be enjoyable, I used to actually ENJOY it, now I see it as more of a chore and a task to sit there and watch 90+ minutes of "football". All the diving and cheating, whistle-happy ref's, it's getting too much.

(:/)


i really agree with you there, football is turning crappy its just gettin pointless

[Kalou]

The fact FIFA refuses to use video evidence is enough to realise football is e, it's probably the best form of evidence and lets be honest, how can you fake something that millions have already seen? it's like the FBI refusing to use DNA evidence, it's bloody stupid in every way.

So I can headbutt 6 players in one match and get away with it if the ref/officials didn't see it? which they probably won't as they are mostly blind morons.

FIFA have to be strict as foock, give a yellow for diving EVERY TIME, this won't last for 5 years, everyone will realise diving isn't worth it therefore they will stop, but this new FIFA fud is saying you won't get banned until you get 3 yellow cards, so basically he is giving players another chance to dive?

I have always said 4 linesmen would be better, you can't expect 1 "blind bat" so see the entire half of a football pitch and pick up everything that goes on, because quite frankly this doesn't happen and it's obviously a problem.

[AfroJoe]

Neglecting video evidence is the real culprit. I mean, how simple is it to just have the 4th official watching a screen at the sidelines, whilst in headset contact with the referee. He can then easily just tell the referee within a matter of seconds whether it was a dive, etc, and the referee can award the decision correctly.

The argument against video evidence is supposed to be that it slows the game down, but using that kind of procedure, you're not going to lose anything more than 10-20 seconds tops, which is less time than players spend on the ground play-acting anyway...

[mitchw01]

video evidence would make a real difference. i dont think the sport is in tatters though its too popular to fall flat.
the influx of italian players into the premiership this season will make it very interesting indeed!!!!!!!

[backin-strachan]

Yeah but (this sounds really stupid) but its what makes football FOOTBALL. Yes Im all in favour being used in the case of diving but if its "Is the ball over the line" or "Is that player offside".

AJ wtf does nullying mean???:D:D:D

You seriously watch Scotsport SPL with the 3 stupidest people you could possibly find presenting it:|

:D

[AfroJoe]

AJ wtf does nullying mean???:D:D:D

You seriously watch Scotsport SPL with the 3 stupidest people you could possibly find presenting it:|

:D

Tell me where I said "nullying", and I'll tell you what it means. :)

I watch Scotsport for the football, strangely enough. Whilst the presenters are rubbish, I'm not going to pass up on the only chance I get to see SPL football just because of this.

[Killer 57]

Tell me where I said "nullying", and I'll tell you what it means. :)

I watch Scotsport for the football, strangely enough. Whilst the presenters are rubbish, I'm not going to pass up on the only chance I get to see SPL football just because of this.

Hehe I found where you said something similar, but I want Loco to find it.

[AfroJoe]

Yeah, that's the point. "Something similar." :D

[Killer 57]

Yeah, that's the point. "Something similar." :D

Yeah what you said is an actual word, what B-S said is something that a pished Irish would say :D

[backin-strachan]

I hate HANGMAN just tell me:)

[AfroJoe]

Nullify; to invalidate.

Saying that you don't watch Scotsport SPL kind of removes any potential argument you have with regards to Scottish football, seeing as it's the only highlights programme we've got. :)

[backin-strachan]

Are you off your rocker!!! You must be spying on me if you know what I do and do not do.

Eh Youtube, Mediaputfile removes any p1sh that you WILL find with Sarah"My mouth is normal" O and Juleeeeann. Dont get me started on Jim Delahunt. The higlights show nothing. I will watch at the rarest of times with an Old firm but staring at Fraser Wishart and Hugh Keevins and Jim Delahunts lip NAH. I have Clyde 1 on at 6 every night with Pedro Martini and Big DJ. Evening Times every night. I have BBC Radio with me every Saturday, even at games. How TF can you say watching highlights does anything. What do highlights do!!! If theres a dive then fans will show unrest on Phone ins and forums alike.

[AfroJoe]

Actually watching match coverage gives you a far deeper insight into what's happening with regards to our football than some nobhead phoning in to a radio station (who is going to be biased), or some idiot writing an article in a newspaper (who is going to be biased), and you know it.

[backin-strachan]

I know what papers are Pi5h and what papers are fair. Dont even say the Evening Times is biased as it is the most neutral paper available for both CFC and RFC. Oh no bias newspaper writers. Just stay away from the Daily Rangers The Sun and The Daily Star and I assure you it will be bias free. I suggest The Hearld Calum!

Did I say I agreed with the nobheads that call in. Its listening to them ranting and raving on about how they see incidents. Thats what gives me insight. Not watching Dunfermilne being demolished every week or a stalemate at Pittodrie. Higlights are nothing mate. You see the goals (if any:p) and maybe a few chances. Thats it. There is no point its a waste of time. If you somehow are able to watch every 540 minutes of SPL football each weekend then maybe you will see "something" but its Archie MacPherson you see more than anything on the Scotsport.

Now if you want Insight:s then watch OFFSIDE:p Haha Ye canny beet it

[AfroJoe]

I already read the Herald, but thanks for the pointer. :)

"Highlights are nothing" --- what total guff. Sorry, but that's one of the most stupid comments I've ever seen on 360Monster.

Fact of the matter is, players dive in Scottish football, and if you continue to deny that, you're delusional.

[WACCOE]

Your on Sky Sports is the best to watch for unbiased arguemtns regarding Football.

:cool:

Shame, I have lost all will to even argue about Football nowadays.

[backin-strachan]

LMAO

...with Jim White...no thanks. Its a great program actually but its repeated news after half an hour until some news breaks...which is really cool:cool:

I do the best impersonation of Jim White though:D

[Kalou]

I used to listen to some SPL games, problem is, after the first half it turned gaelic for some reason so now my only option was watching the highlights on Scotsport, but I prefered the gaelic :)

Still, it was nice seeing her big paps but even that was ruined with Julian spraffing in the background, maybe I will just get Setanta so I can listen to the biased commentators instead. Truth be told, I am thinking about getting setanta for the foreign football and not the Scottish :D

Anyway, video evidence as in someone being slapped around the face yet being let off because nobody seen it, do you watch rugby? it sucks yeah, but the old man has it on sometimes and I watch a bit and your lucky if it takes 20 seconds to make a decision, which in football is feck all, or better yet, add it on at the end, hence why it's called STOPPAGE TIME.

Another question, how often do you see wrong decisions in rugby?

[AfroJoe]

Truth be told, I am thinking about getting setanta for the foreign football and not the Scottish :D

Heh, same. Serie A, Bundesliga, Championnat and Eridivisie.

All better than the SPL. :D

[backin-strachan]

Yeah I seen the ad on TV and they have some line up. Poor Srah O though:'(

[backin-strachan]

Well they were held in their opening game!!!

Juventus started their campaign in Italy's Serie B by being held to a 1-1 draw at 10-man Rimini.
Defender Matteo Paro gave them the lead on the hour mark and Rimini midfielder Domenico Cristiano was then sent off for a challenge on Pavel Nedved.

But a misunderstanding between Robert Kovac and Jean-Alain Boumsong allowed Adrian Ricchiuti in for the equaliser.

It was Juve's first-ever match outside Serie A following their relegation after the match-fixing scandal.

Their punishment also included a 17-point deduction.

Coach Didier Deschamps said: "We already knew we faced an uphill battle this season. All the matches will be like this.

"It will take time for us to adapt. Unfortunately we don't have much of it."

[AfroJoe]

Boumsong mistake cost his team a goal. Where have we heard that one before? :D

[Bigcon100]

afroJoe (i lost wher i wanted 2 quote from)



But it will b at least 8 years befor juve get into cl, way more than 4

[AfroJoe]

Nope, they can be back in 3 or 4 seasons, easily.

Look at Fiorentina. Relegated to Serie C2 at the end of 2000 season, and if they hadn't been hit by this scandal, they'd have been playing in the UEFA Cup this season. They also finished 2 points off a Champions League spot, narrowly beaten there by Roma.

If they can climb 4 divisions in 6 years and be competing for the Champions League, then I'm pretty sure Juve can climb 2 in less than 8...