An Xbox Live Killer?

[sharplayer]

This is must read. It actually scared me in away. Team Xbox posted a huge and i mean huge article on how Xbox Live can get easily squished by Sony if they take the right steps. Yeah, i said squished. Just read the article, and don't have a heart attack or yell saying " no my Xbox Live, NO! ".

http://media.teamxbox.com/dailyposts/sony/sony_vs_microsoft.jpg

"Sony is an 800-pound gorilla to reckon with and only an Xbox fan boy could underestimate the power of this international conglomerate. So, what if Sony is really developing a big entertainment network that matches every Xbox Live feature and adds new capabilities that only Sony, with its big infrastructure, can develop?We decided to sit down for a moment, put aside our love for the Xbox, and think about the real possibilities Sony has in developing an Xbox Live Killer......" Full Article Here... (http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1481/PlayStation-Network-An-Xbox-Live-Killer/p1/)

Microsoft isn't dumb, they'll take action when it's time and release the full features that Microsoft has been planning for some time now.

[get2sammyb]

Why are you so worried. If the PS3 is that good, go and buy one and place it on your desk next to your 360.

[backin-strachan]

The 360 will emerge the better console(if you exclude the japanese market;))

[Raide]

Ah great, this article rises up again.

XBox Live Launched in November 15, 2002 on the first XBox. Sure it had a load of bugs and these all got sorted out. Patches, updates and all manner of tinkering sorted out Live. We also got the Live Arcade around as well, which made Live more fun for casual gamers. 360 launches with a new Live and updated features, Gamer tiles, better support for friend lists, more indepth stat tracking etc etc...the date today? 14th Feb 2006. Taken a while to get this good.

If Sony think they can roll out an XBox Live Killer on PS3 launch, they are kidding themselves. It will take them years to get everything ready, sorted, bug-free and userfriendly. Sony are not the best at networking, Microsoft are, hell, they have been doing it for years! I am sure Sony will come up with a good Live alternative but most will stick to what they know works and works well...XBox Live.

It is funny to see Sony do this. After years of being at the top, they now have to look to Microsoft to find out how to be better. If MS have not copyrighted most of their ideas etc, I would not be surprised. Live has a good few years on Sony/PS3 Live (I wonder if they dare) and will increase. Some of the teamxbox arguments were a little..odd, for an xbox site.


Lets have a look at what they say eh!

"WWW"

Did they not know that the 360 can do this anyway? Why would 1080p make internet surfing a great experience? My PC monitor eats 1080p for breakfast! Wow, yeah, Widescreen Internet! Could not care less about seeing webpages widescreen. This would mean sites would have to be re-designed just to work on widescreen TV's or stretched/upscaled to look right. No thanks, If I want Internet I turn on my PC.

"Movies"

Sure Sony own lots of movies/DVD companies, cannot argue with that. A few exclusive movies Trailers do not make a good Marketplace Sony. Just because you can flash your badge at people and they swoon, does not mean you can make a good Marketplace that does not cripple itself when every PS3 owner tries to download the Spiderman 3 Trailer.

TV programs on a PS3? Um, no thanks! Thats what I have a TV for, that is what Sky does and they have been doing it for years too! Well done Sony, just steal everyones good ideas and claim them as your own *claps* So, where do we store all these TV programs and trailers hmm? HDD or expensive BlueRay writer? When you watch a DVD on a good player, do you moan that it looks crap on a good TV? I don't, so why does Sony think that just because its in Hi-Def and on a blue disc make it any better? Most people wont even care or notice the difference except the obsessive tech heads out there. Make sure you don't do another Blue screen DVD eh Sony*wink wink*

MS already talked about MSN Music coming to 360, you can already Media stream movies, pictures etc from a Media PC, so it wont take long for the 360 to do this anyway.

"Pictures"

I had to laugh at this. Hands up how many people really want to be able to show there pictures on a widescreen, HD-TV for your friends and family? Not that many then. As a famous photo company once said. "the best thing about digital, is printing them." It is easy to take a Digital camera and snap some shots and print them. Unless Sony intend to Print photos before you take them, then I cannot see how much faster they can get. Maybe that is what the front of the PS3 is for? Like a built in printer! yay for Sony making a mobile Kodak. Give it a week of launch before this "Amazing Picture Revolution" is swarmed with ---- and political crap. Welcome to the world of what many people really want.

"Location Free"

Oooh, I had to read this a few time to actually understand what they were on about.

"A new product from Sony that allows you to view, anywhere in the country, television, video, Internet browsing/streaming video, e-mail, and digital photos either through a 12.1-inch wireless touch screen LCD monitor/computer or your PSP. "

As long as you have a good enough wireless connection but this is getting more mainstream all the time. Watching films, listening to music, internet browsing etc etc. These are things that a most use a PSP for and mainly for fun. If your serious about any of the above subjects, take films for example, would you buy a PSP becayse you love films? No, you buy a great TV and a great DVD player etc. If your serious about the Internet *cough* Sad *cough* Do you buy a PSP? Nope, that why I and many people have PC's.

Come to think of it, don't most Palmtops and Media Phones already do most of this?

"Rumor has it that the PlayStation 3 will be a LocationFree base station in itself and the idea is to fully explore the broadband engine concept so you can connect anywhere in the world to the base station (PS3) and receive content from it to your PSP. TV programs, movies, mails, newspapers, ebooks, etc."

So long as your PS3 is on when you want something and if it is that great, why would you leave the house just to update your PSP. Why would you want to stream e-books, videos etc to a handheld when your sitting infront of a big TV? The PSP will turn into a memory storage device with a screen on for the PS3.


"UMD"

One word...Betamax (except not the quality). Just look at what was said earlier on. If you love films/music etc, you buy the equipment that does it best. If you want to watch films, best option if Cinema! and second best is a DVD. If you get all teh extended features onto a UMD then I would be a little happier but since most of them are bare footage, it does nothing to make me choose UMD over DVD. Microsoft is playing it safe here. If HD-DVD takes off as the main movie format, they will make a drive. Same goes for Blue-ray. MS likes this approach since it cuts out the hastle of trying to use a 360. Jokes aside but the PS3 is sounding more like a Media PC every day.

"Gaming"

Currently the 360 is gaming and the PS3 is thiking about it. This comment seemed to be tacked onto the end. Most people that buy a 360 and may buy a PS3 will be gamers. Of course gaming is important! The reason it is stuck on at the end it because nobody knows much about PS3 games. Sure, some fancy pre-rendered CGI has been seen and rumours appear day by day on what spec/tech/grilling attachments it has.

There are one group of people I trust more in this than anyone else...games developers. They know what they are doing! If they say it's hard to get a PS3 to do stuff, then it is. If the biggest problem with the PS3 is the data bottleneck, then it is. Check out the Kikizo.com hands-on with the PS3. Makes for interesting reading to find out that the PS3 is nowhere near twice as powerful as a 360. When Farcry 360, Gears of War, Oblivion, etc comes out I will be wowed for sure. I am a big graphics person and I love seeing what can be done.

In the end, most of us are gamesplayers and it will be the games that will tell who wins. I think that this time it will be much, much closer than last gen. Lets wait and see eh!

(Sorry for long post all! Thats the writer in me :) )

[mjmaskrey]

Good points there!

If Sony Live/Online is good then fine...it may make MS sweat but it's better for us the consumers.

Competition is good....MS will work harder to provide plenty of quality content for Live and hey...we may even see pricing war with each one trying to undercut the other!!

It won't spell the end for Xbox no matter how good it is.

:)

[Raide]

Good points MJ. In the end, it is all for us, so if they have a little fight and it makes them work harder, all the better for us! Bring it on I say!!

[Tom90]

Why are you so worried. If the PS3 is that good, go and buy one and place it on your desk next to your 360.

Nice reply!

I agree 100%

[AfroJoe]

Nah, I'm still not convinced. Correct, Sony will try and do all they can to combat the big steps taken so far by the 360, but everything extra they try and include is going to further delay the console's release and/or cost them even more money than they're already scheduled to lose.

As far as I'm concerned, either way is good for me. If the PS3 does turn out to be a great console and a major competitor with the 360, then Microsoft will have to improve their act, which is good news for those of us who already own the console, and if the PS3 is a big failure which can't compete, well, I won't have to waste £300 on it. :D

[sharplayer]

Why are you so worried. If the PS3 is that good, go and buy one and place it on your desk next to your 360.
I'm not worried. I'm excited! :) Just joking..... competition is good, and if Sony does good with its online service, like i said "Microsoft isn't dumb, they'll take action when it's time and release the full features that Microsoft has been planning for some time now."

[backin-strachan]

Im takin the "sit back and watch" kinda perspective. PS3 will undoubteblly sell consoles but when I quoted a n expected price tag on the PS3 to some guys I was talkin to in school they said NO WAY. £300 personally I can never see the PS3 selling for that anyway. ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS PLEASE
1.Who has a 360?

2.Why did you buy one

I think the answers should solve the problem for most people.Quit worrying about SONY and focus on the 360(Y)

[Raide]

1) I do

2) Because it has the best online multiplayer setup of any console ever!..oh...and Halo 3 :P

[sharplayer]

1) I will
2) Because of the games and Live.

[rydo-uk]

1. I do :p
2.because i always get evry new concol lol and the live lookd really good

[AfroJoe]

1. I do.

2. Because Xbox Live is teh nutz.

[backin-strachan]

Well if you thought PS3 LIVE would be better I am sure you would be on PS3 forums raving up the PS3 but you arent because you thought XBOX LIVE was better and well...you were right so I think we shouod stop worrying about SONY and focus on the superb titles coming to the 360 and the possible capabilities it could bring(Y)(Y)(Y)

[sharplayer]

You right :) So about those games.....

[backin-strachan]

What games:unsure:

[bingo83]

Xbox Live has the Edge over whatever Sony may bring to the table, it is a tried and tested product and the introduction of the 360 to the fold has only made it sweeter.

I tend to play most of my games now on Live against other people rather than a lame AI script.

I am sure everyone who frequents these forums is well aware of the benefits of xbox live and how much fun you can have gaming with people from around the world.

[Steve]

You guys basically dismissed every part of that article because you just don't want to beleive that Sony can be competing. I bet half of you did not even read that article and instead just came up to a conclusion as said it doesnt matter; Xbox LIVE is better. Well if all of these features are true, Im sorry Xbox LIVE will be blown into the water. It will never be able to compete with all of those features including watching movie trailers, web pages, media and all of that. The Playstation 3 will be an absolute Powerhouse if it can pull this Sony Network off. Did you see all those companies backing up Sony over Microsoft? You think there would have to be a much better reason for backing up Sony when the other choice is the World's largest company.

[Raide]

Well, I did read the whole article and it did make me think. All those companies offering support for Sony and mainly backed/have link.run by Sony. If they get all those features in it will be an amazing service but the length of time to get all that up and running and bug free could be ages.

Microsoft play the sit and wait game all the time and this might be a good time for them to wait and see. MS already has many of these features in development, they just need the right time for people to use it. Anyone remember the Dreamcast and its Online play? It was too early for that and it failed. XBL was launched at the right time and it has done well. Just don't be surprised if MS launch a multimedia service for the 360 this year. :) The camera is on its way with video chat etc etc, so MS will wait and launch these kind of services just to steal Sony's thunder. MS, Sony and Nintendo play all the same tricks over and over.

It just comes down to sitting and waiting and for the PS3 offereing, it could be a long wait. Whatever happens, it will be all good for us gamers :P

[SNK]

If I could have a say in this, I would say the following: I've never liked the Playstation series at all, only thing that really caught me was the PSP (good work on that one Sony). Having that said, you might think I'm an Xbox loyal dude (nerd) and you'd be right, but if Sony can pull off an Xbox Live killer, then I would definitely change my mind since Live for Xbox is one of the top reasons I got a 360 in the first place. I'm not scared about all this Sony is coming up with, I'm not scared Sony can create a better "Live" than Microsoft even though I'm an Xbox "addict". I wouldn't see PS3 "Live" as a competitor to Xbox Live, I'd rather see it as a complement to it. It would complete the total gaming experience!

But hey, that's just me!

[just Jam Man]

Just wait till we get TV through xbox liveand video messaging and MSN msnger. MS are working on even more Live products. PS3 might be graphically better slightly but LIVE will always reign supreme!

[Blaze Lord]

Well, I'm not sure why Steve has taken it upon himself to play Devil's (Sony's?) advocate on these forums, and why he assumes anyone who is skeptical of Sony's pre-launch claims is a drooling, mindless fanboy. For my part, I certainly have devoured any piece of information about all three 7th-gen consoles, as well as the 6th-gen ones, and I'm still not convinced that Sony will bring it.

What I am sure of is that believing a hardware company...
-that has had almost nothing to do with online distribution until this year,
-that has a history of making claims and not following through,
-that has a pattern of somehow quietly not living up to the hype and getting noone to notice,
...can suddenly up and top Microsoft's (a software company) software offering.. Well, that seems a little naive.

Moreover, Microsoft has clearly built into this incarnation of Live the ability to be rather seemlessly upgraded. If Sony does have all this greatness, and it turns out to be something that adds to the gaming and/or entertainment center experience, MS will probably follow suit. The ONLY flaw I see in this logic is that Sony outright owns quite a few movie studios, whereas Microsoft would have to battle for rights to show films. But that doesn't much appeal to me. If I'm going to download a movie, it sure as hell won't be one with DRMs from -either- company. (Sony rootkit-gate, anyone?)

And finally, to recaputiulate an earlier point, Sony's pre-launch claims are almost always fantastic, to the point of being fantasy. Wasn't Saddam supposed to be using 200 PS2s to run his UAVs? Or was it his WMDs? Regardless, he was supposed to be using those 'supercomputers'. Wasn't the Emotion Engine supposed to revolutionize and evolutionize everything thats ever happened to everyone everywhere?

1080p? 1080p30 is bad for gaming, 1080p60 is, at this point, laughable. Some of their claims are clearly just a 'we thought of something cool (and pointless) to do that Microsoft didn't'. Like, displaying from one console to 2 HDTVs. How many of you have -two- high def displays in the same room? How many of you have 6 console-less friends, to the point that 7 controllers on one screen (or 2, see above.) makes MORE sense than playing on Xbox Live? Or even system link? I would venture that Microsoft had considered these ideas, and rightfully said, "That's just stupid." Whereas Sony thinks that anything more is better.

And we'll see if 100% BC with PS2 games happens. I'm skeptical.

I liked my PSOne. A lot. There's a reason I got one. I thought the PS2 was cool, and would've bought one if I didn't start hearing all these things about the Xbox. All of my friends owned a PS2 when I got my 'Box. And now, all of them have PS2s collecting dust, since they later bought Xboxes themselves.

And I understand why one chooses sides. 7th gen consoles are a serious investment, and anyone who can afford to buy both at launch prices has quite a bit going for them. It'd be safe to say that few of us certainly expected to buy both. The idea that one 'complements' the other is a bit.. off. Ownership is still somewhat mutually exclusive. Personally, I'd feel a little embarrassed and gypped if, 2 years after buying a 360 (for quite a bit of cash, all told), the PS3 was so superior as to convince me I had to buy one.

That PSHub will "complete the experience" would only be true if one were expecting to buy a PS3 in conjunction with a XB360 anyways, and didn't want to be stuck on crappy publisher-based servers when playing a PS3-only multiplayer game.

[Killer 57]

A post like that deserves Rep too bad I have to spread it around before giving it to you again.

[Raide]

Funny thing is Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all love playing numbers games. It's just another e-peen enlargment game they like playing. At the end of the day, util I am playing a game/using a new console I will reserve judgment. You are correct Blaze by saying Sony do tend to make up great specs and then not reach them and still manage to avoid actually telling people why.

The thing is, where is all this heading? Why did I by a DC, N64, XBox and 360? I like playing games! Why does Sony seem to be avoiding thte fact the PS3 plays games. They tag all this amazing multimedia stuff on and PS Hub and all that and at the end they say "Yeah and we do some games too." Does everyone really want a multimedia hub that plays games? Or is it the other way around?

Whatever happens, I hope it is good for all the gamesplayers out there

[sharplayer]

Funny thing is that Sony hasnt said much about their online service, though more info is coming out of their mouths. People are talking like their online service is going to be bad or good, but it hasnt been out yet. Though be can speculate what it's going to be becasue they havent had a Live service like before. We'll see what happens. Microsoft made many promises before it released 360 saying all sorts of things that are still not available on Xbox Live. I expect the same thing from Sony saying they're going to have as much service as Xbox Live is offering or even more. Which is probably not happening if you look at Sony's history of promising things to their fanbase. Maybe with time they fufill that promise.

[Swish]

At the end of the day guys, we can all trust that Sony won't reach Xbox Live potential at launch. Sony can talk the talk, it doesnt really matter, as people will judge it as soon as it launches.

If it pushes the industry to the next level, then im all in favour of it.

Just as long as the Playstation 5/Xbox 4 can play games

[Blaze Lord]

A post like that deserves Rep too bad I have to spread it around before giving it to you again.

Heh. It's okay, thanks for the thought.

Funny thing is that Sony hasnt said much about their online service, though more info is coming out of their mouths.

That's true, especially officially and to the public. But still, over the last 6 months, a lot has been said behind anonymous sources. Leaked through official magazines (which often times just have a license with Sony), with most of it coming from developers.

November of last year, there supposedly was an article in Official PlayStation Magazine, linked from CVG (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=128730)
"Sony won't be following in Microsoft's Live footsteps and producing a dedicated online service for PS3, according to a report appearing in Official PlayStation Magazine.

There have been rumblings previously that such a direction would be taken with PS3 online but it's nevertheless a surprising move by the Japanese giant. Xbox Live has proved highly successful for Microsoft and Nintendo is launching a similar service in Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection.

However, Sony is sticking with its online strategy employed for PS2 and leaving online system set-up in the hands of publishers. Apparently, the company is happy with the freedom such a system affords both game developers and publishers and sees no reason to change."

After seeing the 360's launch, and seeing the underdog Live Arcade take off, they seem to have changed their minds. Of course, it's possible they always meant to have an online service, and hoped to goad Microsoft into avoiding evolving XBL for the 360. If this was the case (and I think it was), Microsoft did not take the bait. (But as you'll see, they still fell for half of it.)

You may now be thinking I have a severe axe to grind. I don't. Any major corporation plays this game. And Sony has done it before, to my belief. There was a time, although I can't recall where I read/heard this, Sony was saying a hard drive would be standard, and would not be doing a tiered selling system. (Tiered = The 360's Core and Premium.) I have a feeling this was to pressure Microsoft to have a hard drive standard as well. Which means every box costs more, both for the company and for the buyer. Both companies have decided to have a tiered system so more people will be late adopters. Anyways, I'm getting off track.

Around January 13th, Steve Ballmer of Microsoft gave an interview with Investors Business Daily, reported via Xbox Users Group (http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/content/view/2334/151/)

IBD: How will Xbox 360 fare when Sony's PlayStation 3 comes out?

Ballmer: Nobody knows what PlayStation 3 is, so it's a little hard for me to answer the question. And nobody knows when PlayStation 3 is going to come. The rumors are it will come out in the spring, but only in Japan. And nobody knows what PlayStation 3 is going to cost. PlayStation 3 has a (Blu-ray Disc) drive built in, so who knows what the heck they're going to charge for the thing, because those are very expensive drives. Who the heck knows what the games are going to look like for PlayStation 3? So, a lot of questions. And Sony has no strategy for an online service. (Emphasis mine.)

On January 18th, 2006, well after the 360's launch, Sony emailed a link to this questionaire, reported via Gameshout again (http://www.gameshout.com/news/012006/article2747.htm) :

1. On a typical day, how often do you play games online?
2. Do you own a PSP?
3. What is your preferred Online gaming format?
4. What Online Gaming Formats do you own?
5. Do you think you will purchase a PS3?
6. A single identity and password for all online games?
7. Global Lobbies allowing you to play against anyone in the world?
8. Game Lobbies should be language based. (English, French, German etc)
9. Game Lobbies should be based geographically.
10. A standard, interactive lobby structure for all games.
11. Headset support in all online games?
12. A QWERTY keyboard as standard for messaging.
13. USB Keyboard support for every online title.
14. Friend List allowing you to see online/offline status?
15. Friend List allowing you to see what game your friends are playing?
16. Private Messaging across games?
17. A feedback rating allowing you to choose who you play against?
18. Ability to remove players out via a majority vote?
19. Game Host has the ability to remove players?
20. Automatically filter opponents based on connection quality?
21. The ability to download music, game demos and other content?
22. Ability to access the dedicated game forum whilst in game?
23. Ability to take screenshots during the game and share them with friends?
24. Ability to take movie clips in game and share them with friends?
25. Ability to play my music during a game?
26. An in game grief reporting system?
27. Ability to access and manage your gaming profile via PC, PSP as well as PS3?
28. Community features without the need for a game disc.
29. Ability to choose an Avatar for all online titles.
30. The inclusion of a web browser.
31. A specific lobby only for Adults.
32. Service should feature a Global Ranking system for each game.
33. Game Lobbies should be Eyetoy compatible.

The next day, via Gameshout (http://www.gameshout.com/news/012006/article2661.htm) "Sony has confirmed that the upcoming Sony PlayStation 3 will have a live service. Earlier speculations indicated that Sony had no plans for online PlayStation3 compatibilities.

The new PS3 video game console will include such a service which will allow gamers to communicate, compete, and participate in live in-game tournaments."

A week later, an article from PlayStation Magazine had a page scanned on the official PS forums. Supposedly, the final dev kits were shipped, and I would assume that means they had ethernet ports and stuff. This is presuming to be the March issue of the magazine, via Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/01/31/sony-declares-full-on-assault-on-xbox-live/) ,
"Cast aside any doubts and start gazing skyward, because that's where Sony is aiming with plans that go far beyond simple leader boards and matchmaking -- or even the PS3, for that matter."

"'It's very real,' one source tells us. 'They (Sony) are dead serious about it. They've declared, and I quote, a 'full-on assault' on the latest version of Xbox Live.'"

"They are committed to matching Xbox Live [on the 360] feature for feature and then some."


A few weeks later, via Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2270&Itemid=2) "According to well-placed industry sources, PlayStation HUB will offer PlayStation 3 owners much the same services as Xbox Live, including chat, downloadable demos, independent games and online play. The service is also designed to support PSP online play as well as PS3. It's a departure from PlayStation 2's online strategy, widely regarded as vastly inferior to Microsoft's.

PlayStation HUB is being described to developers as a 'subscriber service' suggesting a monthly charge. We understand the service is being created by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, although this is unconfirmed.

Sony boss Howard Stringer is pushing for all media content to be available for distribution over PlayStation HUB, such as music and movies, thus opening up a powerful iTunes-like distribution network for Sony."

Ah, I forgot. Of course, they also own lots of record labels.


Microsoft made many promises before it released 360 saying all sorts of things that are still not available on Xbox Live.

Could you point me to where, if you don't mind? Or at least saying what they were, so I can do some Googling?

[Swish]

There ya go mate, rep'd you.

Nice post.

[Blaze Lord]

Thanks, man.

[Steve]

Nice post! I agree with everything you said entirley (mainly because it was all facts). The Xbox 360 LIVE service won't stand a chance to that. The Playstation 3 will need a great interface though for their online service to work. It needs to function well and not be hard to navigate through. I think the the PS3 will do all of what was asked in the questionaire than all they really need to perfect would be their interface. The PS2 interface was very simple because when it was released a LIVE service wasn't even thought of yet. So the Playstatin 3 interface needs to be something great but original as well. After all the service is going to copy cat Xbox LIVE so at least make it look different.

[Blaze Lord]

Meh. I'm not sure how much of those features will make it into PSHub. In fact, I would say that questionaire is meant to determine what they can prioritize. I don't think XBL is dead, Steve.

[just Jam Man]

Bill gates or at least a head honcho at MS stated that PS might be assaulting live with its own version but nobody knows the sorts of stuff MS has planned especially not sony! So thats whats he said and i think we can expect some crazy features in the future!

[Blaze Lord]

I agree. The only thing that Microsoft won't be able to add with a simple update would be the rights to movies and music. If that's the only advantage in the end, well. Big deal.